God=Fail

The Common ways Gods fail to prove their existence:

When you cry out that God has failed you, when you take his name in vain, when you blaspheme! Does God show up, wag his finger and then smite you? If not then who does the punishing for these affronts? Answer: Other people.

Is your God Omnipotent? (some would say that’s the very definition of Godhood.)

Is your God Omniscient?

If your God is Omnipotent, then why does he need other people to do his punishing for him?

If your God is Omniscient, then why do you need to pray to him? Doesn’t he already know what you need and doesn’t he already know your heart?

Free Will or Predestination?

So your God has given you free will to damn or save yourself? If your God is also Omniscient, then he knows that you will be born, he knows when you’ll die and he knows whether you’ll save or damn yourself. My point is, nothing surprises an Omniscient God, so where exactly is this free will?

If you believe in an Omniscient God and in Free will then you are accepting an illusion and what your God really has is Predestination for all his people. He just hasn’t told any of you who is saved and who is damned. Why would your God lie by omission to his people?

Free Will wins

So you’ve decided that free will is more important than Omniscience anyway and maybe your God isn’t really Omniscient, or if he is, then he just doesn’t have an infinite amount of time to focus on all there is to know – so what? I guess that means he has a finite amount of knowledge he can pay attention to at one time? He’s starting to sound more human by the minute, but yes Infinite things are hard for the Human mind to grasp.

So if Free Will wins then why would anyone ever choose anything other than to save themselves? So when you find yourself in an untenable situation, your life is in danger and you must kill or be killed. Do you defend yourself and survive while the other person, your would be murder dies? What if you then die before you have a chance to confess or profess your sorrow, regret for the necessity of your killing act, and you die before you can be forgiven and redeemed?

Your Omniscient god knows your heart already and doesn’t need ceremonial prayers and priests, but I suppose if your god doesn’t have Omniscience then he doesn’t know you and shit cans you to hell anyway? Or purgatory? If he’s an Omnipotent god wouldn’t he have been able to stop that murderer from trying to kill you? If he didn’t, then why not? Oh right because he’s not Omniscient and for all he knows the other guy was holier than you, right? If he was Omnipotent wouldn’t he have the power to go back in time and watch the situation develop? Wouldn’t an All powerful God have the ability to then examine the hearts of both you and your would be killer and know that you deserved to be saved?

So at this point you are either worshipping a God who is not really Omnipotent, or he just doesn’t care that much for you, doesn’t care enough to find out where you really belong and has arbitrarily shit canned you to hell (or purgatory for an indefinite time which might as well be eternity b/c anything over a year may be nearly as intolerable as hell for some)

I personally don’t think there’s much point in being Omnipotent if you can’t also be Omniscient because you would be stuck running around fixing things after the fact instead of knowing ahead of time what to fix and what not to fix. I think if I was stuck doing that running and putting out fires all the time, then sooner or later I’d say fuck it and stop caring. So maybe that’s what happened to your Omnipotent God? Maybe he’s developed a “Shit happens” attitude.

Okay so your God is a dick, now what? Wait a minute! . . .What if you were wrong about that Predestination vs Free will thing?!

Okay so Predestination wins! and your God is back to being Omniscient and Omnipotent, though, he is still being kind of a dick about the illusion of Free will he expects you to accept. . .still you don’t have to accept the illusion. 

He’ll know of course that you see through the illusion of Free will and that you’re trying to figure out which you are predestined as “Saved” or “Damned”? Well if your God’s stipulated that there is Free will and that God’s word is law, then your disillusionment about Free will means you’re not accepting of God’s Law and therefore him – so you’re damned. Good to know, oh wait that kinda sucks doesn’t it? . . . Maybe if you pray to him to unknow about the illusion?

GOOD NEWS you’ve had a car accident and have suffered a bit of brain damage. . .what? oh why is that good news? oh no reason. . ..did I say good? I must have meant bad, my mouth is always doing that, maybe I have a little brain damage too. . .Ha ha! No the good news is you’re alive, not dead, so it’s a fresh start, right? So the other day, . . what was that you were telling me about your God?

FYI - Activisim is long road

http://www.scholastic.com/teachers/article/important-dates-us-womens-history

August 26, 1920: The 19th Amendment is quietly signed into law by Secretary of State Bainbridge Colby, granting women the right to vote. Suffragist Carrie Chapman Catt summarized the effort involved in securing passage of the 19th Amendment:

"To get the word 'male' in effect out of the Constitution cost the women of the country fifty-two years of pauseless campaign... During that time they were forced to conduct fifty-six campaigns of referenda to male voters; 480 campaigns to get Legislatures to submit suffrage amendments to voters; 47 campaigns to get State constitutional conventions to write woman suffrage into state constitutions; 277 campaigns to get State party conventions to include woman suffrage planks in party platforms, and 19 campaigns with 19 successive Congresses."

1921: American Birth Control League is founded by Margaret Sanger

Change takes a long time - I've often wondered if part of the reason it takes so long is all the waiting for old stodgy people who are set in their ways to die off so new ways can finally be embraced without shame over "what would Father say?!"  as a part of the equation.

Grrr, Ha Ha Ha! too

http://www.grubstreet.com/2014/07/god-eggplant-seeds-baton-rouge.html

Traditional Marriage and the Cycle of Religious Suppression of Women

Understanding the reason why our culture needs to move on from the idea of “Traditional” marriage :

What does “Traditional Marriage” mean to you? Does it evoke ideas of the supposed ideal family of Man+Woman and 1.5 children? Does it mean to you a heterosexual pairing tied together spiritually by God in front of a community of like minded individuals?
Regardless of whatever ideals you cling to, if you go far enough back in history you’ll find examples that defy your “Traditional” definitions. Marriage and family has ever been a changing thing with our species and it continues to grow and change. For instance, the idea of a “white wedding” is a rather novel part of our culture, dating back from early 20th century. Before then, a white dress was thought to be a stupid thing to have, and a symbol of wealth since it invariably would get dirty and look like crap faster than any other color.
There are those who claim Marriage is dead, or should die, or that it’s a bad deal for men, or women but yet people keep wanting it don’t they? Unfortunately there isn’t any one simple fix for any problems with marriage but one thing we can do is objectively look at where we came from with religion in the mix, since the idea of “Traditional Marriage” is tied up so intimately with religion.
Note however, religion is only part of the problem as I see it, much of the rest is the promotion of unhealthy masculine gender identity as emphasized by a heterosexual norm biased culture. Religion only reinforces these ideals but it doesn’t have to, and it’s time that it was changed, whether by individual choice or our society developing beyond these archaic beliefs.

So good it makes me cry

http://www.theonion.com/video/report-leading-cause-of-death-in-us-is-god-needing,35522/

http://www.theonion.com/articles/i-know-heaven-is-real-because-i-saw-it-and-abducte,38449/

http://www.theonion.com/articles/christ-converts-to-islam,754/

Yes, Atheism = Optimism

smiling-atheist.blogspot.com
http://thesmilingskeptic.wordpress.com/

Pessimism and or Atheism? (spoiler alert! - yes, Atheists are actually optimists usually)

I don’t believe in “isms” – as words they’re useful but otherwise they’re just buckets of terminology that our lazy minds like to shove things into.

So yeah, a lot of Atheists are colored in a negative light, for obvious reasons by the religious, but I’m only interested in discussing the less obvious right now: the association of the atheist with negativity. Atheists might use the word “no” when asked about their belief in God, they might negate or belittle pathetic evidence supporting the existence of a god, but this doesn’t necessarily mean that all Atheists are negative nannys full of active hatred for the religious and religious things. Many Atheists don’t even call themselves “Atheist” because it has a pejorative flavor to it, and they don’t wish to evoke that reaction in the people around them.

Most Atheists live out their lives the same way the religious do except they avoid the time sucking waste of going to services in church or other religious time sucking nonsense. Some of these Atheists don’t even think to use the word Atheist to describe themselves – but even those who do won’t necessarily do anything a religious person needs to be afraid of, like violence or criminal acts. Atheists won’t come a knocking on your door to try to push their ideas down your throat. If they gather in large groups, they’ll probably be very civil about it and only engage religious who engage them first in some manner, such as making ridiculous claims about hell or some such other BS.

http://cdn.inquisitr.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/
Westboro-Baptist-Church-e1331914082519.jpg

There are no Atheist brain washing boot camps for troubled teenagers, but there are for religion. There are no cults of Atheists. (No Cult of Dusty https://www.youtube.com/user/CultOfDusty

In Memory of George Carlin

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Carlin

http://youtu.be/vAj6cXHrWdQ

I love stories

Ok so something you ought to know about me: I like to create stories in my head. It’s mostly just for me, I don’t expect other people to give a damn, but I’ve been doing it since I was a child so I’ve become pretty practiced at it, and super aware when I’m doing it too. 

I’ve always loved stories as well as creating stories. In RPGs’ as well as fiction – in fact I remember remarking on my love for the gods in the role playing game D&D, because they were actually worth worshipping and had real power (in game only of course!) You pray for healing and it can actually happen in game. This seemed to both amuse and annoy one of my friends but my point is I’m well aware that I sometimes enjoy and wish fantastic stories were true. What a weird and interesting world it would be if say ghosts were real? Or vampires. I love to play the what if game, but well a part of me knows the improbabilities, knows the difference between reality and fantasy and it just won’t shut up.

So the other day I heard strange noises in the kitchen, like sounds as if the kittens were messing with the dishes, except I saw the kittens right in front of me and they were lazing about as cats are inclined to do. 

Me,(mental voice #1 –MV1): Ha! they’ve developed an out of body method of searching for food! Those adorable scamps.. .

Me, (mental voice#2-MV2): Yeah right, that’s silly! Might as well say it’s a ghost cat.

MV1: Ooooh! Ghost cat, now that’s fun, but Cat’s already can walk through walls right!?

MV2: mm well yeah there was that bit about Schröedinger’s cat but that’s a thought experiment about quantum mechanics, not really the same thing. You’re thinking of the Heinlein novel The Cat who walks through walls – but that’s not necessarily what’s happening here. In fact it might as well be time travelers from the future spying on you and using their superior tech to keep out of sight but every once in while you perceive them in some small way anyhow, so those sounds were them accidentally knocking the dishes, not our cats or your ghost cat. That’s just as likely and just as improbable. . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schr%C3%B6dinger's_cat

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cat_Who_Walks_Through_Walls

One year ago

Made my first post one year ago, wazoo!

Anyway, what if we had a church of chocolate and a church of bacon?  The devout members of the Chocolate church would in discussion with the faithful Bacon church goers get into such fights over who's chosen flaver was best, right?  But wait, then some do-gooder would get the idea of putting chocolate and bacon together to try and make peace. . . oh the evil, delicious, blasphemy.

http://www.vosgeschocolate.com/category/all_bacon_chocolate?utm_medium=cpc&utm_source=bing&utm_campaign=Bacon%20+%20Chocolate|Bacon%20and%20Chocolate&utm_keyword=bacon%20and%20chocolate&utm_content=bacon%20and%20chocolate

and this may be why peace will never be kosher for some folks.

Kingsman: a review b/c it blows my mind

 

Kingsman movie poster at IMDB site

So Kingsman – I guess this is sort of a film review, so spoiler alert!  I understand that it’s based on a comic, but I haven’t read the comic so I’m only going to respond to the film and leave it to someone else to comment on how accurate to the comic it was and whether any of the observations I have track to print as well.

                First, for some reason the violence in this film really took me by surprise.  I knew it was an action picture and yet both the close up depictions and the implicit violence seemed way over the top to me.  I’m not usually one to care for a having a kill count or statistics on what I’m watching, but this film made me want to know.  Yes, it’s that violent.  And yet but for it being a plot point for one of the characters, there’s very little blood, very little gore.  I’m thinking of the first 10 minutes when a character is sliced in half from top to bottom and the two halves are each covered with a sheet, and yet there’s no blood pool or other obvious person bits lying on the floor between the two halves (and no it wasn’t a slice by a light saber, WRONG FILM!)  So right there you get the message: live action cartoon.

                The message that the violence in the film is going to be neat, denying the messiness of life and death, continues with the corrolary message that you only need to make a cursory attempt at diplomacy before resorting to violence, because well, it’s expected by all the characters involved that “we’re going to fight now” – which is admittedly not an exact quote, but

Manifest Destiny

Man is beset by fantasy 

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb
/1/12/American_progress.JPG/1010px-American_progress.JPG

Manifest Destiny : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_Destiny

We should eschew this bullshit from our politics, from our children’s text books and call it what it is: a perfect example of winners writing the history books.

This rhetoric is still used today by US politicians when they say it’s our job to encourage other countries to embrace democracy, and then so justified they send our young people off to war. It’s appealed to by so many for so long because it makes people feel good, it gives them a reason to love their country and ignore some of the US’ more despicable moments. It has allowed the rationalization of so much violence and it hooks into the religious sense of righteousness too.

When someone uses this rhetoric to justify US imperialism, I say inwardly “Bullshit! Someone wants to get paid, someone’s got an angle on this that will make them rich and that’s the real reason why we’re going to war!”

Now that’s not to say that our democracy, or rather republic (I mean oligarchical republic), has not inspired some to build their own democracies, - it certainly has helped, but often our imperialism makes the US look like a nation of used car salesmen. Always smarming our way in and manipulating things to our advantage, making the deal happen but strategically being elsewhere when the bumper falls off the super lemon dud we sold the unwitting recipients of our supposed beneficence. Why no indeedy do!, we didn’t set that up! No sir! you must of forgotten to fire that up the right way.. .

The fact is the democracies that actually survive are the ones that were the hardest won. Freedom can be assisted but not purchased, unlike Tyranny. Nope, Tyranny and dictatorships seem to thrive on selfishness and greed so if you’ve got the money? No problem! You can buy the country.

And why not, it’s not as if you can’t find something good to say about life in a dictatorship – a benevolent dictatorship might actually result in more change that benefits everyone, like food and other necessities being readily available for the destitute. However, people’s individual freedoms suffer the most in dictatorships, and it’s extremely likely that the benevolence will disappear at some point. Then you’re just left with Tyranny.

http://conservativeread.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/jefferson
_liberty_vs_tyranny_small.jpg

Neophobes vs. Neophiles and our love of Sci Fi

Tyranny

http://youtu.be/uQHdlsOiAuw 


Religion in School
http://youtu.be/MRXKEtJsRrQ

Same Sex relationships
http://youtu.be/lX8MwpsZI6U

Putting aside belief in the Supernatural

http://youtu.be/n6NPq_kPSUM 
http://youtu.be/ZESAxrv88j8

Because

 I'm not the only one who notices how many funny atheists there are:
http://flavorwire.com/137757/comedys-funniest-atheists-a-collection-of-irreligious-quotes/view-all

Diet of Worms

Most Christians don’t enjoy the Diet of Worms (1521)

Or any of the history of the Christian Church because it’s evidence of just how much of it is really humans deciding and doing things. God hardly enters into it at all. Sure they would claim that these religious figures of history were divinely inspired at least as long as what they find attributed to them could be said to be “good” but when less “divine” actions, from political maneuvering to expropriation, persecution, torture or murder are documented, well then the blinders go back on and the naysaying begins. This is because religion was a source of power for nobility, - especially royalty.

http://image.slidesharecdn.com/briansandifer-turningpointschapter7
thedietofworms-110926141748-phpapp02/95/
turning-point-7-the-diet-of-worms-1521-1-728.jpg?cb=1317064961

Martin Luther is the one history remembers for his founding of the Lutheran church and the start of the reformation, or what should be more accurately called the split in the Catholic Church that led to the spawning of many new sects of Christianity. Before the “happy” happenstance of protestant churches dominating and being accepted, back then, Martin Luther was just another heretic to the Catholic Church, and he was very lucky to not be caught and executed.

If you look at the history of the Church of England and the English Reformation, the politics, and violence are horrifying. All were human activities, not “acts of God” though I’m sure some saw gods hand in everything. It’s this history that led to the age of enlightenment and the founding fathers of the United States came right out of this strife over religion. Seems history supplanted by “social studies” in schools doesn’t really touch on these delicate details very much though.

Time after time, History has shown us that religion and religious power mixed with governmental power leads to despotism, persecutions and unnecessary death (all things incongruous with the tenets of the myriad sects of Christianity). Hence Science may be #1 on the religious fanatic’s shit list, but History is a close second.

Expropriations - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expropriations

So many Atheists would like to see religion eliminated,

We can choose to be good to each other

http://images.forwallpaper.com/files/images
/f/fdf8/fdf8cbf6/165151/
nature-beauty-fall-winter-seasons-of-the-year.jpg

In the northern hemisphere January is often the most depressing month of the year.  What will you do to make it better for yourself, or for someone else?  Will we find a way to get through the most depressing time of the year? and is knowing that spring comes enough?

Some people have faith in God, others choose to have faith in each other:

http://imgur.com/a/eTtNu?gallery

 Will you choose to have faith in humanity? will you be the reason someone else has their faith in humanity restored?

The Good is that which leads to health, The Right is that which leads to
peace. Purpose is ours to choose, Meaning is the story we choose to join.
We are all members of Darwin's family, all kin from the beginning of life.
If you value anything, value other humans, for they are the only help you
will have in times of trouble. The Godless Universe is vast and wondrous,
and more than enough. We have loved the stars too fondly to be fearful
of the night.
[John Hodges, 1999] - from quote file on infidels.org

Grrr, Ha ha ha!

Here's something infuriating: http://wonkette.com/560133/new-texas-schoolbooks-moses-wrote-the-constitution-for-slavery-segregation


 And here's something amusing:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7f2eXQxfHk

and for shits'n giggles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQJrBSXSs6o

Myths retold

These are a hoot to read out loud:

http://bettermyths.com/387-2/#link-for-judeochristian


-now don't say I never give you anything.

Beware Echo Chambers

Beware Echo Chambers

A while ago I mentioned that Atheists don’t gather weekly to pray to the universe or some such other nonsense, but I do think even we Atheists need to be cautious about our gatherings whether in person or on line in social media. If we only ever hear opinions that are compatible with our own, then we may have begun living within an echo chamber.

http://www.websighthangouts.com/wp-conten
/uploads/2014/02/pantheon-michael-bennett
-photography-echo-chamber.jpg

Life in the Echo Chamber can sneak up on you and it can exist wherever folks gather and reinforce each other’s beliefs often leading to the feeling that there are no other ideas and certainly no great number of other people who see things differently. That group think while useful for getting things done, is dangerous to take to heart too deeply. Even Atheists need to remind themselves of this and take precautions.

I think this may be one of the reasons why some Atheists are so out and so confrontational. At the very least when you have to make the arguments against religion or religiosity regularly, it means you’re at least listening to the opinions of the other side. It’s also probably why I often feel that the religious lack skill in making good arguments or quite simply don’t think logic is a necessary component of their arguments and I often hear other Atheists confirming this impression.

Comedy, Race and Recent Events

http://blogs.rollcall.com/hill-blotter/wp-content/uploads
/sites/14/2014/08/ferguson_021_081414.jpg

Look at all the civil unrest! and during the holidays too. There’s no doubt that the news often portrays the world as an ugly place so much that I could be embarrassed for us if there were aliens receiving these news reports and assessing humanities intelligence based on our emanations of babble into space. Sadly, there’s only slightly more evidence of aliens, or rather probabilities of alien life, than there is of the existence of “God,” still their existence is just as unconfirmed and other types of life we could find in the universe, though alien, may not meet our expectations of intelligence. If extraterrestrial intelligences do exist they may be so far away as to live out their whole existence and expire as a species before receiving any of our signals anyway.

So it’s okay for us humans to look at our lives here in an introverted sort of way, we can be self-involved since there’s no God or aliens watching us and any improvement we make from our self-analysis will only benefit us.

Why am I speaking about us as a species? Why am I not talking race? And pointing out all our racial prejudices? Why aren’t you talking like me? I wonder why more of us aren’t talking about us like we’re ONE species as I’m doing? Why don’t we eschew this “race” idea along with the “god” idea?

Why? Because we humans are lazy and our thinking is just so much easier with handy categories to subdivide the species into for our own personal convenience, so we use these labels to create mental definitions of: in groups and out groups, of good guys and bad guys, of attractive mates, and unavailable mates, unhealthy mates, or taboo mates, etc. etc.

Why is this a problem? well mostly it is another case of a tool that’s often misused and abused, like guns. Sadly our thought processes don’t come with a handy disclaimer declaring them null and void if used contrary to manufacturer guidelines!  We all need to learn and practice using our brains in smart ways. Humanity needs to learn to think, to life hack our brains to our advantage, instead of shackling our future to entrenched cultural ideals, where we end up looking back at history and think it’s a good thing we have short lives so older entrenched stupidity can die off. Instead we should be training ourselves and our youth to think for themselves, to analyze their thought processes and always seek to improve their lives by improving themselves and their own personal habits. 

 

We have natural tendencies to create habits, so create healthy habits! Yes thought processes are the most fundamental of habits and you can change them, it just might be harder and take more energy than most people want to invest. Hence the laziness of humanity - the only thing we really ought to be embarrassed about, especially if we continue on doing stupid things while ignoring evidence of our own senses, of our scientists, of proven facts that indicate a change in our thinking is needed. If we continue doing that, then yes we ought to be ashamed.

But the thing about shame is it might well be the first step in changing, except some treat it as the end! the anathema, that no recovery is possible. What nonsense! There are no bad behaviors that can’t be recovered from, that improved behavior can’t earn accolade even, if we’re willing to allow that possibility. The idea that forgiveness is divine only, is stupid. The reason we forgive someone who has hurt us isn’t because God mandates it, but because it’s the healthy thing to do, otherwise you tie yourself to the pain and allow the victimization to continue.

Like Taking back the Night, or Reclaiming the bad words, we need to take back our brains from the media, the salesmen/politicians, -anyone who is trying to tell us what to do or what to believe.

 

http://static.squarespace.com/static/4f44432f24acae023d677618/t
/5023be2ce4b046c494f54498/1344519725616/comedy-club.jpg

Now speaking to life and habits, what sort of habits, or lifestyles do you suppose develop for Comedians? 

They break into the business by doing stand up in bars and clubs, restaurants and other public places where there’s drinking and sometimes lots of smoking. They are performers, who might suffer from nerves before a performance and need to self-medicate to compensate for nerves or for late nights, grueling tours, excess drinking, or just not feeling their mojo that day. 

 

Bar culture is full of alcohol induced personalities leaking the full measure of their prejudices, and if functional alcoholics are present they may even sound reasonable while spewing bullshit. Culturally, alcohol seems to grant license to all sorts of bad behavior, which if you’re in that atmosphere all the time may start to seem like normal, even appropriate behavior. Is it any wonder then that those who spring from that experience often provide distilled examples of humanities worst impulses?

Don’t mistake me, I’m not excusing anyones’ bad behavior, only pointing out the probable sources that may have created it, encouraged or protected it from censure. Most people, even those who work in that atmosphere, know the difference in mood, in behaviors because they don’t spend all their time there. They may not consciously express knowledge of the differences, but they feel them on a gut level and most behave accordingly.

Now before you think I’m proposing some prohibition on drugs and alcohol, try instead to accept that drunkenness doesn’t ever excuse behavior, only explains it, and we did try prohibition already didn’t we! However, it’s not unreasonable to remove the idea that being under the influence excuses bad behavior. Hold people accountable for their behaviors and they’ll find ways to modify those behaviors and still enjoy themselves as well. And holding people accountable doesn’t always mean arrests, it could just mean other people who are witnessing bad behavior speaking up and shaming the perpetrator.

So if anything I’ve just said here sounds too simple, too pat, then you’re under the mistaken impression that I’m here to do all your thinking for you.  Time to step up and use that brain you have for something other than just consuming our culture.

In Memory of the loss of Life in Jonestown Nov 18 1978

http://digboston.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/jonestown
_time_newsweek.jpg

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonestown

I remember when this happened.  I was just a kid and it was a chilling sight and news that I wish we'd talked about more, but I was probably too young for that talk.  Or my parents didn't want to deal with such a tough subject.

Cults are no joke and I'm not joking around.  If you can't leave your religion you may be in a cult: http://culteducation.com/help.html

Get Help if you can.

Now I may be an Atheist but that doesn't mean I equate all religions with cults.  Hyperbole aside, most religions and most religious people are not going to make you drink poisoned kool-aid, but that doesn't mean they aren't unhealthy in their own ways.
Your health, your decision.

Cults are a different matter altogether.  In a Cult your health is not your decision - it's the decision of your religious leader(s).